How much is Humphrey and the Smith family worth?

[bigjim]

Ok - but the Montague Arms definitely cannot be a Sams pub - just look at it!

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?layer=c&cbll=51.473573,-0.051309&panoid=inwj6aKoB_ipgpCH5KjeZw&cbp=12,320.055603,,1,-9.647067&ved=0CFUQ2wU&sa=X&ei=h5DQS_upAZyRjAfV7ZXZDQ

Music of any kind is not permissable in any Sams pub since the blanket ban - so not sure what happened at Ye Old Cheshire Cheese.

[DarkieBoy]

It certainly doesn't look like a typical SS pub.  http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/69/6937/Montague_Arms/New_Cross refers to SS beer being sold.  I've phoned them but got no reply early this evening...I'll try again tomorrow, but removing it until further verification.  I think this one was already on the map before I started adding to it.  It was mainly London SS pubs with the odd other one here and there.

Cheers,

DB.

[bigjim]

Well the Sunday Times Rich List 2010 has now been published and indeed there is no mention of Humphrey Smith and his family - but I've already suggested that a very conservative figure of ?750million would be appropriate based just on the obviously and publicly identifiable pub, brewery and land assets. As time goes by, the internet will no doubt identify more property owned by the family and possibly help lift the figure to the ?1.3billion speculated by city people quoted elsewhere on here.

So where does this sort of figure put Humphrey and the Smith family in the scheme of things here in Britain? Answer - 80th and level with Lord Vestey and his family who derived their wealth during the same sort of time frame as the Smith's but from shipping and the meat trade - remember Dewhirst butchers?

If the figure transpires to be nearer to ?1.3billion (and it could easily with the long rumoured Docklands portfolio, other hidden vacant landholdings and shareholdings) that would make the Smiths almost as wealthy as their landlord at a couple of London pubs like the Duke of York - the Baroness Howard de Walden family who are listed as the 35th richest family in the UK.

Anyway, we're not supposed to know this of course and it's one of the reasons Humphrey Smith is so 'publicity shy' and why his pubs are now so anonymous. So don't tell anybody and get him annoyed.     

[bubble]

   Just found this, sorry if its been posted before.

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/company/company.php?id=00188027&showMap&showMap&showSubs&showShareholders

home > your company
SAMUEL SMITH OLD BREWERY (TADCASTER)
SectorCompany detailsContactAccountsHistorical accountsHistorical salariesStaff representationNews
SubsidiariesShareholdersDisclaimer
more info Sectors
SIC code: 1596
Description: Manufacture of beer

SIC code: 5134
Description: Wholesale of alcoholic and other beverages

SIC code: 5225
Description: Retail sale of alcoholic and other beverages

Company details
Company number: 00188027

Type of company: Private Unlimited Company

Country of origin: United Kingdom

Incorporation date: 22/02/1923

Status: Active

more info Contact
Registered office address:

THE OLD BREWERY,
TADCASTER,
NORTH YORKSHIRE
LS24 9SB

[show map]

more info Accounts
Accounts reference date: 30/04

Last registered accounts: 02/01/1982*

Accounts overdue: NO

Accounts category: ACCOUNTS TYPE NOT AVAILABLE

Accounts document available: yes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Annual turnover: ?26,075,000.00

Annual profit: ?1,228,000.00


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turnover per employee: ?23,364.70

Profit per employee: ?1,100.36

Historical accounts
Turnover (incomplete data)
[Click on a point to see the exact value]


**  this part is actual graphs if you look on the website, easier to understand


20012002200320042005200620072008?22mn?23mn?24mn?25mn?26mn?27mnProfit (incomplete data)
[Click on a point to see the exact value]

20012002200320042005200620072008?1.125mn?1.15mn?1.175mn?1.2mn?1.225mn?1.25mnHistorical salaries
Number of Employees (incomplete data)
[Click on a point to see the exact value]

200120022003200420052006200720081,1001,1251,1501,1751,2001,2251,250more info Staff representation
We have no record of union recognition at this company, though our records are not complete. As companies often trade under different names, you may get a better result trying a wider name search with our unionfinder tool. If you know this result to be in error, please notify us via the UnionScope.

We do have a record of these unions having recognition deals with other companies in the same sector, though not with this particular company:

?Unite
?GMB
?Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians
Join a union: It's always best to join a union with recognition status, as they will be able to do more for you at the workplace, but there are still many benefits to joining a relevant union even without recognition.

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more info News   
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more info Subsidiaries
Companies often split into several entities for legal or financial reasons, and so there can be many companies as part of the same family. These entities are listed as subsidiaries of this company.

?ROCHDALE AND MANOR
?G. & W. TURNER
?R & M GASKARTH
?WALKER & SCOTT
?WHARFEBANK
?GASKARTH (ALTRINCHAM)
?JOLLY COBBLERS (BRISTOL)
?ABBOT'S HOUSE
?S.S.O.B. (NO. 4)
?S.S.O.B. (NO. 2)
?NUN-APPLETON FARM
?S.S.O.B. (NO. 3)
?ROCHDALE AND MANOR (BUILDERS)
?HEALAUGH FARM
?OXTON ESTATE
?MELBOURN BROS'
more info Shareholders
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN) H R W SMITH 1983 NO 1 SETT
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN) O G W SMITH 1983 NO 1 SETT
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN) H R W SMITH 1983 NO 2
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN) O G W SMITH 1978 SETTLEMEN
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN)O G W SMITH 1983 NO 2 SETTL
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN) H SMITH 1978 SETTLEMENT
?SAMUEL SMITH (SOUTHERN) H SMITH 1997 SETTLEMENT

[DarkieBoy]

Hi there bubble,

Not seen this before and it's quite interesting.  What I have noticed though is that the annual turnover is around ?25 million, which seems tiny based on 300 pubs and a brewery.

Cheers,

DB.

[yorkie]

The figures relate to 1982! They were the last published accounts before the companies became unlimited so are well out of date now.

There is a copy of the full accoounts for 1982 somewhere on this site, I remember looking at them with interest at the time.

[OnTheDrink]

Thinking about the turnover figures the only significant factor that will have affected them is the increase in the price of draught products since 1982, as increases have been only affected by duty since 1990. 

So, if a pint cost an average of about 45p at the time, and now averages about ?1.55 (really rough rule of thumb here) then turnover now will be about ?85 million. 

With a normal business you'd expect cash profit to have increased in line with turnover, but as SS pride themselves on not having put up prices in real terms since 1990, and assuming their suppliers have increased prices as any normal company would, and then add in the huge increases in other overheads over the years, with staff costs taking pole position, and not to mention some hefty capital costs for refurbs, then its not entirely improbable that the company is making a trading loss.  This would then explain the desperation exhibited by Hump in his cost cutting activities.

[bigjim]

OnTheDrink - I think you have summarised the likely situation very well indeed. No wonder he is reported to be looking unwell and losing weight - as we suspected, he's dug his inherited business into a very big hole indeed. To be honest, I can't see how his personality and character will allow the changes necessary to redeem the situation. Presumably he's pumped some private wealth into the business, but this doesn't seem sufficient to stop the bank calling the shots eg allegedly telling him he can't buy any more property - even adjoining agricultural land. Blimey - the bank will be telling him to sell property next!

I suppose in essence Humphrey finds himself in that classic bind of the landed classes - asset rich, cash poor!