Advice please, we are considering becoming a management couple

[whistle]

Hello all.

Interesting forum to say the least. Myself and my wife are considering taking on a sam smiths pub in the northwest area, we are not new to the trade and have several years experience, would any members please let us know the good points and bad points of this business, how long it normally takes to get a pub from application stage, what the process is and if you could point us both in the right direction and give us a bit of a 'heads up' !

Looking forward to reading your advice, tips and hints.

Cheers everyone ! 

[bubble]

Most of what you read here is true...I asked my local manager if he would apply now if he knew what the company were like to work for....he said no way..

[Teresa]

Have just worked with SS BELIEVE THE FORUM I DID NOT AND IT HAS COST ME DEAR> loved the pub and the customers were brilliant however Mr S is a total and complete control freak its his way or no way yes it is his business but your life oh sorry no that is hisw too once you start to work for him you are kept short of staff hours and try to get any work done on the premises NOT A CHANCE once you ask for to much he finds a way to drop you .

[OldBreweryDrinker]

Sorry to that you have lost your job, because of Mr Smith. I have heard that he is currently sacking managers at a distressing rate at the moment, for not reducing staff hours and not achieving his 5% surplus. Also jsut sacking managers with no reason after the 11 month mark.

[Teresa]

I know I have been and another Manager after 7 months who was on the same course for the same reason and like you have heard of one who is just 2 weeks off his Year with the company

[devastatedrelative]

DON'T DO IT

Please, please believe what you read on this forum.  What is on here is only the tip of the iceberg.  Managers can't say anything, Humph gets information from all over the place and it is impossible to say what you really want on this for fear of it being acreditted to you. 

When you talk to him he seems plausible and can make it sound as if all those who've gone have been unsuitable.  This is not true - he has got rid of lots of good managers.  You really are lucky to get past 12 months, then there's the 24 month mark and even after that if he wants you out (and he frequently does - he seems not to like lots of things) he will make sure that one way or another you go. 

He loves the gross misconduct route.  Be warned he backs you into a corner.  He might not know much about running pubs and licensing law but he sure as anything knows how to use employment law to his benefit no matter what.    Please let us all know that you are not going to be one of his victims.

Humph uses divide and rule to manipulate.  You are not supposed to talk to other Managers, you feel isolated and lonely.  You can't trust anyone, other managers, those who work for the brewery and customers. 

He doesn't want Managers (actually the best word would be supervisor because you are not allowed to manage but do exactly as he wants just like an experiences bar staff) except you work for less money and are constantly on call plus put in loads and loads of hours a week.  The contract of employment signs away most of your employment rights.

If anyone has read this forum and still wants to work for Samuel Smiths then all I can say is you really must be absolutely nuts.

[bob2n]

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!
The ss logo isn't just for show it really is like working for the gestapo in ww2.

[devastatedrelative]

If you are silly enough, then please ensure you immediately join a Union.  At least you'll not be entirely alone and they can help you fight and give advice when it all goes **** upards.  Although Humph has more money than the Unions and he eventually wears them out by chucking money at it.

[whistle]

thank you for your comments, there must be some happy managers, somewhere? hard to beleive its all doom and gloom ?? 

btw, how many bar staff are you allowed to employ in your pub, how does it all work with ss, cheers guys 

[bubble]

think you can employ as many staff as necessary, but you will only get a small limited number of hours anything over that you pay yourself.

[devastatedrelative]

Believe what you read.  For most people it is all doom and gloom with Humph.  There is nothing to stop people putting their good experiences on this forum or even the evil Humph putting his views on.  I imagine it is less problematic to post good experiences on this forum as Humph is less likely to be at your throat.   

Basically, if people are daft enough to give up their homes and jobs and work for him after reading this forum, then be it on their own head. 

He is usually so desperate to replace all the managers he has sacked or caused to resign that you can be in a pub in a week or less. 

As for staffing levels.  He keeps it at a minimum.  You will both need to work 45 hours plus a week.  I suppose you could pay extra hours out of your own pocket but then you will be paying tax on your income and also paying them without tax which is illegal and I'm positive Humph will find out somehow and you'd be had for gross misconduct. 

Only the manager knows what hours he can employ staff for and pubs open different hours.  If someone puts on the forum what they have - they are
putting their jobs on the line because they could be identified.  He has sent a memo round warning managers not to use this site or else.

Once again can I emphasise that you will not be a manager but a supervisor.  He does not allow anyone to manage but only take the blame.  He doesn't manage either just orders.

Please listen to what people have said.

[whistle]

  this all does sound very worrying, god damm this is a lesuire industry, everyone should be happy and welcoming customers through the door with smiling faces,, we are not in world war 2, it all sounds like hitler is in charge here and no one dares make a decision, managers going running there business on a daily basis with fear about losing there job, are we sure that everyone is not getting a bit paranoid here, is every sam smiths pub in the uk run like this ??   

[bubble]

Looks like the only way to find out if this forum is true is apply, take a pub and see for yourself.   Good Luck

[Max]

The reason I had this site and forum commissioned was simply because of the exploitation and alleged illegal activities of the brewery towards all - and in particular it's managers. This is believed to be solely down to one person - Humphrey Smith.

At one time, the brewery and H Smith were great to work for, but due to a change in the 'mind' of Mr Smith - things have been going down hill - and many good people have been severely hurt, or even devastated. As a direct result of Mr Smiths unbelievable and cruel action, managers have found themselves thrown out on the street on numerous occasions, on trumped up unfounded allegations.

I find it truly amazing that the man hasn't been either sectioned, or struck-of as a Director by Companies House - or both.

Through this site, individuals and couples have reported instances such as having to personally work a ridiculous amount of hours - just to cater for customers who may become upset at having to wait so long to be served. The net result is that they are working below the legal minimum pay requirement.

We have on one occasion, contacted and arranged a meeting with the MP local to one manageress who was thrown out (locks changed) with no notice, and holding her baby, with another younger child in hand. Smith didn't want the Police involved - and allegedly uses his heavies if needed.

I could say much more - but I think the content of these forums speaks for themselves. And bare in mind - the majority of 'victims' don't report back to this site when dismissed, as they understandably want to put it all behind them.

This really is as said, 'just the tip of the iceberg'.

If a personal friend or family member wanted to work for Sam's whilst H Smith remains at the helm - then I would feel it my duty as a humanitarian, to do everything possible to deter them - for their own good.

I can only recommend working for H Smith to one type of person - an undercover investigative reporter.

I can imagine, that with a different board of Directors, or if by some miracle H Smith reverted back to his former self (a respected man) then company could once again be a great institution to be part of.

Finally, I leave you with a quote from Wikipedia:

Controversy

Samuel Smith's brewery has courted controversy with its policy of removing music and television from pubs. Further, criticism from the GMB trade union has been levied on the company for its treatment of pub managers, resulting in a number of court cases. Humphrey Smith has also pursued a number of planning application objections at the cost of Selby district council.

==============================

If you do apply and take the job - please always consider that it may all come to an abrupt end, with little notice. Go in 'eyes open'!

[bigjim]

I can only recommend working for H Smith to one type of person - an undercover investigative reporter.

Come on BBC Watchdog - can't you see a brilliant story in the making?!