Samuel Smith's Cider

[alepaul]

It's perfectly possible to produce cider in the same place as beer as long as it's fermented in different tanks. AFAIK SS is the only British brewery that makes cider and you have to say it's really not that bad. Other stuff can be very sweet.

[OnTheDrink]

It's perfectly possible to produce cider in the same place as beer as long as it's fermented in different tanks. AFAIK SS is the only British brewery that makes cider and you have to say it's really not that bad. Other stuff can be very sweet.

Yeast infections and contamination are a brewer's worst nightmare. The resident beer and lager strains will be very strong and will see off any wild yeasts but introduce another cultured yeast, especially a wine yeast which will be able to survive in alcohol levels far higher than a beer yeast, and you will have a problem.  I suppose the Cider equipment is all sealed so there wouldn't be much chance of any yeast escaping. I was thinking of the open fermenters getting infected. I'm fairly sure that SS is the only brewer producing their own cider as you say and it is very good. I had a bottle of the organic a few days ago and it was superb.

[alepaul]

Lager yeast is different to ale yeast so the presence of more than one strain of yeast at the same brewery is nothing new. Through proper sanitisation and cleaning, contamination/infection is not an issue

[OnTheDrink]

Lager yeast is different to ale yeast so the presence of more than one strain of yeast at the same brewery is nothing new. Through proper sanitisation and cleaning, contamination/infection is not an issue

Well I've already agreed that top and bottom cropping yeasts in a brewery aren't a problem but the point I'm making is that a wine yeast would cause a problem if it managed to infect a free in an open fermented, as used by Sams. Having worked at two regional brewers I'm only too aware of proper cleaning regimes. Producing cider in a brewery is so unusual its a real wildcard waiting to happen.

[alepaul]

Well to be honest I'm not going to get too worried about this 'wildcard waiting to happen'.

Are you saying that yeast can somehow magically escape from enclosed tanks (where cider is fermented) and then float towards the yorkshire squares and contaminate the fermenting beer. I'm no biologist/brewer but that seems a bit far fetched to me.
Risk of contamination in such as filtration is presumably avoided by, as you say, proper cleaning regimes.

[OnTheDrink]

Well to be honest I'm not going to get too worried about this 'wildcard waiting to happen'.

Are you saying that yeast can somehow magically escape from enclosed tanks (where cider is fermented) and then float towards the yorkshire squares and contaminate the fermenting beer. I'm no biologist/brewer but that seems a bit far fetched to me.
Risk of contamination in such as filtration is presumably avoided by, as you say, proper cleaning regimes.

Yeast is just like any bacteria and given even the slightest amount of exposure cells will go airborne.  The cider fermenters are sealed during fermentation but they have to pitched which means live yeast will be exposed for a fair amount of time, so no magic needed. There's also the risk of cross contamination in the yeast store but presumably that'll be kept well away from the beer and lager yeasts.

[leodis]

I don't think Sam's are the only ale brewer that also produce cider. Wychwood brewery produce a cider called Green Gobblin.

[OnTheDrink]

I don't think Sam's are the only ale brewer that also produce cider. Wychwood brewery produce a cider called Green Gobblin.

I can safely say that Thatchers produce Green Gobblin.  They produced it before Marstons took over Wytchwood who used to do their own sales and marketing for it, but Thatchers took it all over after the takeover.

[alepaul]

Well to be honest I'm not going to get too worried about this 'wildcard waiting to happen'.

Are you saying that yeast can somehow magically escape from enclosed tanks (where cider is fermented) and then float towards the yorkshire squares and contaminate the fermenting beer. I'm no biologist/brewer but that seems a bit far fetched to me.
Risk of contamination in such as filtration is presumably avoided by, as you say, proper cleaning regimes.

Yeast is just like any bacteria and given even the slightest amount of exposure cells will go airborne.  The cider fermenters are sealed during fermentation but they have to pitched which means live yeast will be exposed for a fair amount of time, so no magic needed. There's also the risk of cross contamination in the yeast store but presumably that'll be kept well away from the beer and lager yeasts.

Anything's possible but not necessarily likely. People say all sorts of stuff against SS but one thing that is never criticised is the quality of the beer. In that sense I think it's in safe hands and there's no need to worry

[DarkieBoy]

Well to be honest I'm not going to get too worried about this 'wildcard waiting to happen'.

Are you saying that yeast can somehow magically escape from enclosed tanks (where cider is fermented) and then float towards the yorkshire squares and contaminate the fermenting beer. I'm no biologist/brewer but that seems a bit far fetched to me.
Risk of contamination in such as filtration is presumably avoided by, as you say, proper cleaning regimes.

Yeast is just like any bacteria and given even the slightest amount of exposure cells will go airborne.  The cider fermenters are sealed during fermentation but they have to pitched which means live yeast will be exposed for a fair amount of time, so no magic needed. There's also the risk of cross contamination in the yeast store but presumably that'll be kept well away from the beer and lager yeasts.

Anything's possible but not necessarily likely. People say all sorts of stuff against SS but one thing that is never criticised is the quality of the beer. In that sense I think it's in safe hands and there's no need to worry

The quality of the beer is usually excellent.  However, if you read some of the posts on this forum then you will see that it is not always perfect.

I usually only drink real ale, but the quality of the Old Brewery Bitter in my local Samuel Smith's has not been great of late.  Instead, Ive been drinking mix on the recommendation of a former bar tender.

I started this particular post as a result of trying the Samuel Smith's cider for the first time on a hot day the other week and really liking it - it's the best fizzy cider I've had in years and is now my drink of choice at my local Samuel Smith's pub.

DB.