Are we turning into a police state?

[ian]

I also help to keep pubs open, but at the same time I am not killing myself by smoking, nor damaging others' health by inflicting passive smoking on them.

Smoking isn't natural and it is not a human right to smoke.  Smokers have a right to smoke, but none smokers have a greater right to breath clean air, wherever they might be.  Breathing clean air is a human right.  I do not want to breath carcinogenic air when I am walking down the street, in pubs, in beer gardens, etc.  I have a right not to have that inflicted upon me, against my rights.

DB.

Smokers always say that us non- smokers had a choice, but we didn't really, until the ban. Now they have a similar choice and most of them don't like it.

Indeed, non-smokers choice was stifled.  We didn't have any pubs (that I know of) that we could go in and enjoy without any smoke in it.  Remember when people smoked on aeroplanes and on trains (remember the King's Cross fire which was caused by a discarded cigarette) and in shops and restaurants?  Well, those days have gone, and not just in the UK, but across Europe, North America and the English speaking world.  All I can say is good riddance.

DB.

You can add China to the list as from 1st May, 2011.

[BlackDog]

I totally agree DB, having never been a smoker myself things are much better these days. Me supping Alpine does not affect anyone else whereas smoking does. Granted you need to moderate the intake and respect its strength but the banter in the Sam's houses I frequent is nothing but healthy.

[ian]

A list of countries where smoking is restricted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans

ian.

[ciderman]

it's a difficult one, everyone has there opinion if you are smoker, non smoker or ex smoker. the ones i feel sorry for are the older end that have very little pleasure and company at home like to go the pub and have a couple of pints and puff on there pipe. Yes we all have rights and as a non smoker the only time i objected to smoking was in a food house not that sam's have many anymore. I say bring back smoke room/ family room.

[ian]

I say bring back smoke room/ family room.

But what would happen if the manager and/or the bar staff are non-smokers?

ian.

[bigjim]

Well, in the interests of having a balanced debate I would like to say a couple of things - and I speak as someone who has never had a cigarette in their entire life. In my view the smoking ban has not only contributed significantly to pub closures, it's also damaged the atmosphere.  I not only get heartily fed up having to fight my way into a pub past loads of sad looking smokers, it annoys me no end to find that when I get inside there's a good number of drinks on tables but no one sat with them. The tension between 'shall I have a drink or shall I have a fag?' is palpable in pubs nowadays.

Can I also make the point that the ban has hit the ordinary working class man and woman particularly hard. No end of bingo halls and working mens clubs have closed because ordinary people are now denied the two simple pleasures in life that were part of their culture. I think it particularly sad that a guy who's spent his life in heavy industry is now denied these simple pleasures in retirement. I think it was basically a class-based decision and yet again the working class lost out.

Finally, I'm fully aware of all the health-related arguments, but as a non-smoker all my life I would go back to the former atmosphere of pubs tomorrow. Yes I know I may be in a minority of one, but political correctness has never been a strong point of mine.

Thanks for listening,

bigjim

[garybaldy72uk]

Well, in the interests of having a balanced debate I would like to say a couple of things - and I speak as someone who has never had a cigarette in their entire life. In my view the smoking ban has not only contributed significantly to pub closures, it's also damaged the atmosphere.  I not only get heartily fed up having to fight my way into a pub past loads of sad looking smokers, it annoys me no end to find that when I get inside there's a good number of drinks on tables but no one sat with them. The tension between 'shall I have a drink or shall I have a fag?' is palpable in pubs nowadays.

Can I also make the point that the ban has hit the ordinary working class man and woman particularly hard. No end of bingo halls and working mens clubs have closed because ordinary people are now denied the two simple pleasures in life that were part of their culture. I think it particularly sad that a guy who's spent his life in heavy industry is now denied these simple pleasures in retirement. I think it was basically a class-based decision and yet again the working class lost out.

Finally, I'm fully aware of all the health-related arguments, but as a non-smoker all my life I would go back to the former atmosphere of pubs tomorrow. Yes I know I may be in a minority of one, but political correctness has never been a strong point of mine.

Thanks for listening,

bigjim

Well Said!

[DarkieBoy]

it's a difficult one, everyone has there opinion if you are smoker, non smoker or ex smoker. the ones i feel sorry for are the older end that have very little pleasure and company at home like to go the pub and have a couple of pints and puff on there pipe. Yes we all have rights and as a non smoker the only time i objected to smoking was in a food house not that sam's have many anymore. I say bring back smoke room/ family room.

I understand what you are saying, however, I see a smoking "room" as the same as having a "no urinating" zone in a swimming pool.  Smoke travels.  Furthermore, pub companys ripped apart pubs in the 1980s and made most of them into one big cavernous room and destroying traditional pubs in the process.  The cost of reinstalling internal walls is far too prohibitive.

And then there is the argument about the staff's rights...

DB.

[mac33]

Well summed up Bigjim,hit the nail on the head.

[sovsuppa]

Brilliant bigjim. As a non smoker I totally agree with you. Smoke rooms should be introduced with adequate extraction units and self closing doors in my opinion.
As for ripping pubs apart and opening them up: I think you will find that that had a lot to do with drugs in pubs.  Magistrates etc. decreed that a landlord/landlady should, wherever possible, be able to see all parts of the pub from within the bar.  You will find in a lot of pubs(including Sams), monitors behind the bars and cameras in every rooms for those pubs that are unable to meet this criteria. 

[ian]

I've started something here didn't I.   My post was really about the notice and could it be enforced.

Re smoking in pubs.

I've never smoked in my life but when smoking was allowed I did not mind. But now I seen the another side of the coin, if smoking was allowed again (no way will it) I would be very upset about it.

ian.