Samuel Smith's in the Good Beer Guide

[DarkieBoy]

I've noticed that there are no (as far as I can see) Samuel Smith's London pubs in the Good Beer Guide, despite some excellent buildings and top quality cask beer.

Are there any Samuel Smith's pubs in the Good Beer Guide at all?

DB.

[ademapearl]

Perhaps Humphrey has issued a super injunction against the publishers banning any mention of his name or products in the guide.

[DarkieBoy]

Perhaps!

I am thinking that he is not too keen to be published in the Guide as part of his "hiding" from the Times Rich List.

DB.

[OnTheDrink]

My local Sams pub is in, and has been for years.  Not sure how Hump could stop his pubs featuring in the guide. The brewery is listed, and the guide doesn't often specifically identify owners, although the solitary cask ale on sale would be a clue!  Seems odd that none of the London pubs are in unless the various camra branches members that survey the pubs aren't keen on OBB, but that opens up a whole new argument...

[Milton]

I heard a rumour a few years ago that SS require their cask OBB to be served with an aspirator (a device which puts a blanket of carbon dioxide into the barrel, making the ale last a day or two longer than it would without one), and in the eyes of CAMRA this disqualifies the ale from being "real", i.e. using artificial means to preserve the beer as opposed to letting it mature naturally. This might be a reason that CAMRA aren't specially keen on SS, however, I've seen various SS pubs in the Good Beer Guide, but not for a couple of years now.

[yorkie]

I think some of the problems may be:

1) With the rapid turnover of managers, CAMRA couldn't rely on the same person being in charge for the 12 month shelf life of their current guide.

2) Can inexperienced managers handle real ale as well as those who have been in the trade for years?

3) Sams pubs only offer one or two cask ales if any (my locals are all keg and many CAMRA members turn their noses up at them).

4) Serving 95% full pints maximum is totally against CAMRA policy.

[DarkieBoy]

3) Sams pubs only offer one or two cask ales if any (my locals are all keg and many CAMRA members turn their noses up at them).

Samuel Smith's only have one real ale left, which is Old Brewery Bitter.  I would like to see the kegs on cask...the mild, Sovereign, stout, etc.

DB.

[OnTheDrink]

3) Sams pubs only offer one or two cask ales if any (my locals are all keg and many CAMRA members turn their noses up at them).

Samuel Smith's only have one real ale left, which is Old Brewery Bitter.  I would like to see the kegs on cask...the mild, Sovereign, stout, etc.

DB.

Cask versions of the other beers would be a cracking idea, and would help the brewery increase its free trade sales astronomically.

Re the cask breathers/aspirators, I'm sure SS did use them where OBB sales were low, but recently Hump's just been taking the beer out completely if it doesn't sell.

[Malchetone]

The Angel and White Horse in Tadcaster is in along with a handful of other Sam's pubs.

One thing which may mitigate against Sam's pubs being included is "change of landlord". If an existing GBG pub has a change of tenant / manager since the local branch surveyed the pub (or possibly since the last GBG was published), then this may be a ground for excluding / deleting said pub from the GBG. Because GBG pubs are nominated by branches rather than centrally, then "change of landlord" can appear to be extremely flexible at one extreme and hypocritical at the other. The same criterion may also work against a pub being included initially.

[OnTheDrink]

I think some of the problems may be:

1) With the rapid turnover of managers, CAMRA couldn't rely on the same person being in charge for the 12 month shelf life of their current guide.

2) Can inexperienced managers handle real ale as well as those who have been in the trade for years?

3) Sams pubs only offer one or two cask ales if any (my locals are all keg and many CAMRA members turn their noses up at them).

4) Serving 95% full pints maximum is totally against CAMRA policy.

1 - Spot on, although some CAMRA branches waive this depending on the actual manager and beer quality.
2 - No, they can't, which is why Hump's been taking cask OBB out of a number of pubs.
3 - Just the one beer, which doesn't appeal to the real ale 'tickers' who like lots of new beers.
4 - Short measures aren't exclusive to Sams!

[DarkieBoy]

The Angel and White Horse in Tadcaster is in along with a handful of other Sam's pubs.

One thing which may mitigate against Sam's pubs being included is "change of landlord". If an existing GBG pub has a change of tenant / manager since the local branch surveyed the pub (or possibly since the last GBG was published), then this may be a ground for excluding / deleting said pub from the GBG. Because GBG pubs are nominated by branches rather than centrally, then "change of landlord" can appear to be extremely flexible at one extreme and hypocritical at the other. The same criterion may also work against a pub being included initially.

The Angel and White Horse in Tadcaster is one of few Samuel Smith's houses that I know are in the Guide.

Does anyone know of any others?

DB.

[OnTheDrink]

The Angel and White Horse in Tadcaster is in along with a handful of other Sam's pubs.

One thing which may mitigate against Sam's pubs being included is "change of landlord". If an existing GBG pub has a change of tenant / manager since the local branch surveyed the pub (or possibly since the last GBG was published), then this may be a ground for excluding / deleting said pub from the GBG. Because GBG pubs are nominated by branches rather than centrally, then "change of landlord" can appear to be extremely flexible at one extreme and hypocritical at the other. The same criterion may also work against a pub being included initially.

It's not just the change of landlord that can be hypocritical - I can think of many pubs that sell excellent cask beer in my area that haven't got a cat in hell's chance of getting in the GBG because the manager/tenant doesn't pander to CAMRA members, doesn't stock guest beers and generally doesn't 'conform' to the local CAMRA branch view of what makes a good GBG pub, despite the pubs being very good places to go and drink, eat and socialise.

[Milton]

It's not just the change of landlord that can be hypocritical - I can think of many pubs that sell excellent cask beer in my area that haven't got a cat in hell's chance of getting in the GBG because the manager/tenant doesn't pander to CAMRA members, doesn't stock guest beers and generally doesn't 'conform' to the local CAMRA branch view of what makes a good GBG pub, despite the pubs being very good places to go and drink, eat and socialise.

Agreed, the GBG will occasionally feature pubs that really shouldn't be in there, but are because of past reputation, the landlord's a friend of the CAMRA branch, etc. while some good pubs tend to get overlooked.
However, if a pub's really any good, it'll stand more of a chance of being on the CAMRA radar for inclusion in the GBG.

[ian]

I have a friend who sometimes comes with John and myself on our Sam pub runs who is a CAMRA member so we usually end up in one or two pubs that are in the GBG but are not Sams.  More times than not the Sams beer is a dam sight better then any in the CAMRA GBG pubs.  Mind you I would say that wouldn't I.

ian

[whizz]

You maybe would say that Ian, but so would I.