Author Topic: Sam smiths Running costs - Should we give humphrey some credit?  (Read 1243 times)  Share 

Offline hurtbyhumph

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As many will know i am dead against what Humphrey is doing to the company and also the bullying/his way or the highway attitude to people who work for him and The damage his own mind is suffering. But if we actually look at what a cost one pub is to run nevermind the 300+ Humphrey owns and runs. When you take into account gas, electric and Business rates, Cleaning products, Taxes, insurance, Repairs and maintenance to the buildings and then you got the running costs of the brewery and the rest of Humphrey's empire is it any wonder that he cuts the staff hours because when you take away the running costs if a pub is not making a profit then that leaves staff hours needing to be cut so that leaves Humphrey smith with no option but to either loose more money or make changes and make the manager/s work 70+ hours each. Humphrey has been trying to make the profit and loss column look good for many years but now he has reduced the board of directors to him and Oliver who i hear does as he is told by the humphs, hes reduced the amount of staff at the brewery which means they are working harder to get done what there used to be two thirds more people running the company and doing for no more money so we should feel for them. Long and the short of it is that poor old richboy Humph is trying to save the company and doesn't realise that he is alienating the customers (who he has no business without) staff and supporters rapidly and the only result  will be a Yorkshires Oldest Independent Brewery being another casualty of the economy and Humphrey going totally insane at the thought of loosing what he has worked so hard to keep going.

In the end maybe humph does deserve some credit and perhaps he would get some if he took the blinkers off and swallowed that stubborn yorkshire pride and listened to the customers and staff. We are all supporters of this fantastic cheap independent brewery and put time and effort into sharing our thoughts with other like minded members on this site regardless of Humphrey's attempts to shut it down.

Advocating managers and there vigilantis is not the way forward, Ever heard the phrase two wrongs don't make a right you know!

COME MR SMITH MAKE OUR DAY LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SAM SMITHS A GREAT INDEPENDANT BREWERY AGAIN and its a fact you can not make it successful without customers and you wont have any at all soon.

Anyone else agree?

COME on MR CHRISTIAN HORTON PASS THIS TO THE MIGHTY HUMPHREY
SMITH LETS START THE Sam Smiths Supporters Society And get Humphrey and company on the board and this way its the best free publicity and free market research tool to help you bring your company back in to the black and yorkshires Oldest Independent brewery running even longer you only have to listen and its FREE MR SMITH and as am sure whats a couple of hours of your time if your going to gain such valuable information FREE OF CHARGE. We all understand your the Back Bone of SAM smiths and everything passes through you for your royal approval but we all want to help you keep this brewery going and fantastic beer being independently  served at Yorkshires Oldest BRewery.
« Last Edit: Feb 9 - 2012 by hurtbyhumph »

Offline OldBreweryDrinker

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As many will know i am dead against what Humphrey is doing to the company and also the bullying/his way or the highway attitude to people who work for him and The damage his own mind is suffering. But if we actually look at what a cost one pub is to run nevermind the 300+ Humphrey owns and runs. When you take into account gas, electric and Business rates, Cleaning products, Taxes, insurance, Repairs and maintenance to the buildings and then you got the running costs of the brewery and the rest of Humphrey's empire is it any wonder that he cuts the staff hours because when you take away the running costs if a pub is not making a profit then that leaves staff hours needing to be cut so that leaves Humphrey smith with no option but to either loose more money or make changes and make the manager/s work 70+ hours each. Humphrey has been trying to make the profit and loss column look good for many years but now he has reduced the board of directors to him and Oliver who i hear does as he is told by the humphs, hes reduced the amount of staff at the brewery which means they are working harder to get done what there used to be two thirds more people running the company and doing for no more money so we should feel for them. Long and the short of it is that poor old richboy Humph is trying to save the company and doesn't realise that he is alienating the customers (who he has no business without) staff and supporters rapidly and the only result  will be a Yorkshires Oldest Independent Brewery being another casualty of the economy and Humphrey going totally insane at the thought of loosing what he has worked so hard to keep going.

In the end maybe humph does deserve some credit and perhaps he would get some if he took the blinkers off and swallowed that stubborn yorkshire pride and listened to the customers and staff. We are all supporters of this fantastic cheap independent brewery and put time and effort into sharing our thoughts with other like minded members on this site regardless of Humphrey's attempts to shut it down.

Advocating managers and there vigilantis is not the way forward, Ever heard the phrase two wrongs don't make a right you know!

COME MR SMITH MAKE OUR DAY LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SAM SMITHS A GREAT INDEPENDANT BREWERY AGAIN and its a fact you can not make it successful without customers and you wont have any at all soon.

Anyone else agree?

COME on MR CHRISTIAN HORTON PASS THIS TO THE MIGHTY HUMPHREY
SMITH LETS START THE Sam Smiths Supporters Society And get Humphrey and company on the board and this way its the best free publicity and free market research tool to help you bring your company back in to the black and yorkshires Oldest Independent brewery running even longer you only have to listen and its FREE MR SMITH and as am sure whats a couple of hours of your time if your going to gain such valuable information FREE OF CHARGE. We all understand your the Back Bone of SAM smiths and everything passes through you for your royal approval but we all want to help you keep this brewery going and fantastic beer being independently  served at Yorkshires Oldest BRewery.

I agree i am also against Humphreys policy on how he treats the managers and staff alike, with his heavy handed approach to managing the pub estate. Yes teh costs of running the pubs and the brewery will be very high indeed and saving money here and there probably makes the difference. The maintenance costs for some are going to be higher than others, but alll in all they will be high. Staff hours been cut was alwasy going to happen in a economic downturn to save mney as surely the pubs are not going to be taking as much money as in the good times. Also with so many managers running off with the takings won't help the situation. The managers do work long hours as a subsequent of this, most managers for other pub groups work as hard sometimes for more money. Yes the baord of directors is now down to jsut Humphrey and Oliver, wonder what meetings they actually have though. As i have heard that they don't really talk. Humphrey is alienting and putting new and old customer off visiting his pubs which is such a shame. Promote the brewery and it will prosper, especially in these times.

I think that we should give Humphrey some credit as he has some lovely pubs and looks after the pub heritage of the country. It's a ggood pint at an affordable price. If Humphrey did read this site i think he would get a good rounded view of how the pub estate is running. A free area manager. Yes lets work together to promote and make the brewery and he pubs great again. You lost the oppuntunity at the 250 anniversary maybe use the 300th anniversary to do something to promote the brewery. As it is the oldest in Yorkshire.

May be we should start a supporters club and try adn communicate with the brewery directly. Yes this site is a free tool with valuable information about your pub estate and how well the pubs are doing. Obviously the management turnover is high at the moment and this is not good for the stability of the pubs. Please Mr Smith change your ways and make the busines great again.

OBD

Offline hurtbyhumph

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yes obd fantastic speech mate i have already sent Mr Horton a requested via email. am awaiting a reply (probally for ever or maybe a no comment email) lol. but hopefully Mr Smith will like you say see that a supporters society as a way he could keep his dream of the brewery continuing in making history and continuing to trade and prosper in such bad times which is surly his main objective? :P ???

YES MR SMITH MORE PROFIT THATS THE WAY WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS OLD AND NEW YOU COULD CERTAINLY ACHEIVE THIS AND FOR FREE. many company's would kill for this kind of free market research and all you have to do is show a little more care and listen to what your customers right across the spectrum of people who frequent your houses to sample your fantastic beer have sent Mr Horton an email stating a few points feel free to contact me on the details provided i will be very happy to help in anyway i can.
« Last Edit: Feb 9 - 2012 by hurtbyhumph »

Offline canaldrifter

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I'm all for this.

Tone

Offline OldBreweryDrinker

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yes obd fantastic speech mate i have already sent Mr Horton a requested via email. am awaiting a reply (probally for ever or maybe a no comment email) lol. but hopefully Mr Smith will like you say see that a supporters society as a way he could keep his dream of the brewery continuing in making history and continuing to trade and prosper in such bad times which is surly his main objective? :P ???

YES MR SMITH MORE PROFIT THATS THE WAY WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS OLD AND NEW YOU COULD CERTAINLY ACHEIVE THIS AND FOR FREE. many company's would kill for this kind of free market research and all you have to do is show a little more care and listen to what your customers right across the spectrum of people who frequent your houses to sample your fantastic beer have sent Mr Horton an email stating a few points feel free to contact me on the details provided i will be very happy to help in anyway i can.

Thank you and hopefully Mr Christian Horton might indeed reply and the get the ball rolling with any communication with the brewery. Hopefully also get the brewery back on track and into the next century as well. The more feedback we can get the better and see what comes of it. We can only try.

Offline Nevinyrral

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next century? i thought it only just got into the last century!!

Offline OnTheDrink

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People shouldn't be fooled by cost cutting into thinking that Sam Smith's doesn't make a healthy profit from brewing and selling beer. The low prices are down to the brewery being the last true 'vertical market' brewer in the UK that doesn't add a retail margin at the pumps, not because the brewery has lower margins. Staff costs are the highest overhead in most businesses but HS still imagines that people should work 100 hours a week and like it, hence his wholesale cutting of staff hours - he just doesn't see why managers should have more help.  Maintenance? Precious little apart from the occasional cheapo redecoration. I'd also be very surprised to find one pub in the company that doesn't make a profit, or at least break even.

The reason why everyone suffers from cost cutting is to help fund the massive capital expenditures of Humphrey Smith's vanity developments like the Princess Louise, Widow Cullen's Well, The Cardinal and Robert Raike's House.

If Sam Smith's decided to go with the flow and bring prices up to the levels of their competitors the company would be bust in months because there would be no distinction in the eyes of the vast majority of pubgoers between a Sam Smiths pub selling beer that no-one's heard of, and a pub selling well-marketed national brands, apart from the lack of anything to keep the punters entertained.

Managing over 300 pubs alone is not clever - it's impossible to do it properly which is why he takes on people clearly unsuited to the trade, makes illogical decisions and applies blanket policies. It's management by whim and the company is surviving more by luck than anything else, which is why Humphrey Smith deserves no credit.

Offline hurtbyhumph

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its an impossible situation but at least we can try HS will have to put his distructive actions to the past if wants sam smiths to continue trading


Offline yorkie

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An excellent post On The Drink, I couldn't agree more.

It's all very well congatulating Sams on keeping costs down, but there are two ways of maintaining a company's profits, one is reducing costs, the other is increasing income. It seems to me that most of Humphrey's actions reduce income rather than increasing it. If he would only bring back the things that customers want, he might not have to worry about cutting everything to the bone.

Offline OldBreweryDrinker

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People shouldn't be fooled by cost cutting into thinking that Sam Smith's doesn't make a healthy profit from brewing and selling beer. The low prices are down to the brewery being the last true 'vertical market' brewer in the UK that doesn't add a retail margin at the pumps, not because the brewery has lower margins. Staff costs are the highest overhead in most businesses but HS still imagines that people should work 100 hours a week and like it, hence his wholesale cutting of staff hours - he just doesn't see why managers should have more help.  Maintenance? Precious little apart from the occasional cheapo redecoration. I'd also be very surprised to find one pub in the company that doesn't make a profit, or at least break even.

The reason why everyone suffers from cost cutting is to help fund the massive capital expenditures of Humphrey Smith's vanity developments like the Princess Louise, Widow Cullen's Well, The Cardinal and Robert Raike's House.

If Sam Smith's decided to go with the flow and bring prices up to the levels of their competitors the company would be bust in months because there would be no distinction in the eyes of the vast majority of pubgoers between a Sam Smiths pub selling beer that no-one's heard of, and a pub selling well-marketed national brands, apart from the lack of anything to keep the punters entertained.

Managing over 300 pubs alone is not clever - it's impossible to do it properly which is why he takes on people clearly unsuited to the trade, makes illogical decisions and applies blanket policies. It's management by whim and the company is surviving more by luck than anything else, which is why Humphrey Smith deserves no credit.

Yes we may be shouldn't be fooled by Humphrey cutting costs as the brewing part if the business must still make money. Staff are the best asset that a business has and I don't Humphrey has got his head round this yet. If the prices keep going up as they are at the moment then as you say there would no distinction between SS and another pub chain. Humphrey does spend millions on some of his projects and they do like nice. Another one is the Dyneley Arms at Pool Bank.

Managing all 300+ pubs is a silly decision as he can't get round them all and do the area job as it should be done. All this on top of running all the other companies and operations under the SSOB umbrella. He has taken on some very unsuitable people to run his pubs and sacked some good people that should still be running his pubs. Illogical policies. The blanket decisions and strange policies may still go on for many years to come. The company might well be surviving on past glories rather than the current management's polcies and business decisions.

Offline Coriolanus

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Humphrey Smith to my mind makes all the right decisions with regards his business, but then implements them completely ineptly, with the classic example of the hurried introduction of incredibly sub standard microwave food. The menu was originally ill concieved, the food badly made and the managers who were expected to cook and sell it were invariably not given the right equipment or support to make the stuff anyway. I'm led to believe that in recent times the food has shown a small improvement in some houses, but quite frankly I will have to endure some serious persuasion to ever try any food in a Sams house again and believe me, I did try. I understand the Sunday lunch can be good, but is a little pricey for the purpose of attracting new trade through the door. I could go on forever about the food, the mistakes were obvious but Humphrey still keeps making them because he really doesnt understand the catering side at all. I may be wrong but I was told that the man responsible for implementing the menus has had no previous catering experiance either. A classic case of the blind leading the blind.
I dont know if he has relented yet but HS's rabid pursuit of the 5% beer surplus was exceeded by his demands upon the catering houses who were expected to hit his 60% GP figure or face paying any shortfall back. I know for a fact that the original pricing structure did not take into account things like salt/pepper or indeed chip pan oil , all of which made it impossible to hit Humphreys targets and many poor souls were sacked over it or forced to 'repay' the figure. His regime takes no account of wastage, small mistakes, or even customer complaints.
On the face of it he makes great decisions, food: cut out the middle man = more profit = cheaper beer, SB keeps open. (I'm also sure he started the food because of his paranoia about people ripping him off, and in his own world there cannot possibly be any wastage with microwave food) The removal of Sky was I think a good decision, too expensive for all but a minute number of his pubs. but to then remove all music, terrestial telly and all forms of entertainment (though it might have suited some houses) was taking the original good decision too far. The decision to produce absolutely every product from crisps to tonic water is good, but surely there is room for small variations, for example a choice of other wines in the bigger food houses. I could go on from his refurbishment policy to his treatment of staff, and his ruthless hold over Tadcaster. Everything he does has a grain of brilliance about it, but generally the implementation is heavy handed, ill advised (actually not ill advised because he doesnt listen to anyone), and usually so rigidly applied that the lack of flexibility has a deterimental effect on all but the tiniest number of pubs or people. In fact he sometimes seems determined to upset as many people as possible. Tadcaster and its surrounding area would be a far different place, less green belt, some historical places flattened without HS, but equally without him Tadcaster might also be a thriving market town with a busy high street instead of the ghost town that Humphrey has created.
His treatment of people is the real bone of contention, he has no idea how to get the best from them, believing threats and bullying is a viable management technique and is genuinely surprised when people dont double their efforts after he has just threatened to chuck them on the streets if they dont get the unrealistic 5% or sell more microwave food.
Also for those who have said "If you dont like the hours HS is demanding from his managers, get another job, stop moaning about the work or leave". Well some can do just that, others dont find it so easy. Dont forget running a pub is like no other trade, invariably you are not just leaving your job, you are uprooting your family from their home and surrounding area. Dont believe for a minute that HS should get off with the old "its his company so therefore he can do as he pleases" angle. His decisions affect entire familys, and when he destroys trade at a pub with his strange policies, he destroys entire communities too. I happen to believe he has a duty to his employees and his customers, both of which he has sadly neglected in recent times. He does believe we should be grateful to pay for his beer and his staff should work 100 hours a week to keep a pub open and running correctly. It cant be right, can it? Dont think that these are idle accusations, they are true. Its why many managers start off ok, they are carried through by the newness of the job, and a willingness to do their best, but then they realise that the 100 hours they are doing isnt ever going to get less, they will be expected to do it all the time.....then they leave or they make demands of Humphrey and he responds by making them leave. Its one of the reasons why a lot of managers last about a year, its around the time they realise they are getting exhausted for little reward and absolutely no thanks so they complain and get sacked or walk of their own accord.  It shouldnt be happening in this day and age but it is. I have seen two management couples now (long servers too) crumble over a period of time trying to do their best for the pubs but struggling and then getting threatened for their trouble by HS.
I rarely use SS pubs now, my two pubs with long serving managers finally bailed out last year. They were good at their jobs and stood it for the last few years hoping that HS would see sense....he had to , it couldnt go on like it had been.......but it did. I cant see how any business can afford to lose such valuable assets, but HS seems to encourage it....and if anyone doubts his sanity just witness him in action. I have twice in two different pubs, in full view of the customers of the pub, ranting, twitching, one minute coherent and rational, the next most definately not.....there is no doubt that the poor man needs help, I suspect he needs to step down completely but I think we all know he wont do that while he draws breath.
I agree with On the drink wholeheartedly that he cannot run such a large concern singlehandedly. Its impossible and the cracks have been showing for some time now, not only in the business but in the pysche of the man.
Apologies for yet another quick note that turned into a diatribe, but I do think it important that we never lose track of what this man is doing to people, real people, not just in his pubs but at the brewery too. This website is marvelous but please dont forget it first appeared as a means of providing information about SS, and by this I dont just mean the splendid beer and pubs, but more specifically to give staff and customers info and help in their dealings with HS. Its almost impossible to understand the enigma that is HS, he doesnt live or think by all the normal rules (simply saying he is money grabbing, all out for profit couldnt be more wrong...if he was money driven, he would have done something about the food fiasco by now. He may use profit as an excuse for some daft idea, but rarely is it the be all and end all of his reasoning)
Anyway apologies for the length of this, I rarely post these days because as I said I rarely use my SS locals since my two favourite managers felt forced to leave, so when I post I have to make it count!!!!

Offline OnTheDrink

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I enjoyed reading that - all very well said and not a scrap of disagreement from me. 

Where does it all end though? If he suddenly finds himself out of circulation for whatever reason, what continuity planning is there? Who can or will take over, either short or long term?

Offline Coriolanus

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Youre right, my old mate used to say 'its bad with him, but what if he does disappear overnight?' All power and control in the hands of one man cant be good and HS's departure would surely leave the company like a headless chicken. Or has he made provision, has he got a grand masterplan for life after Humphrey? I dont know, he has spent the last 5 years unleashing unpleasant surprises upon everyone perhaps he has one pleasant surprise saved for the very end?

Offline purplecurtains

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A really interesting read is this thread. What always niggled at me is the 'blanket rule' he has, I don't see why some pubs can't have music and others can't, some do food (making it good!) and others not. You can't view an estate as a whole when they are in Cities and sleepy hamlets with customers of all ages to attract these days.

Offline hurtbyhumph

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WOW how many fantastic views to be added to this thread!!!!  ::)

how many people SAYING all the same THINGS about the grand olde HUMPHREY SMITH!

Brilliant keep up the good work people Mr Horton will undoubtedly be relaying this information back to his royal master of tadcaster, bet old humph is getting rather worked up at all these true story's being made public showing what a self centered control freak he really is !

And your right about the family's situation he gave me and my family an hour (or he was charging me rent) to get out. the man is a monster with far too much power and money for his good and the good of his own company is suffering badly cos of his prehistoric ways and eccentric ways of acting up.

There was many rumours last year that Humphrey was about to let his son Samuel take over the reins in the next few years but i can't see that happening, without Humphrey being declared unfit to control the company and then it might change, he does seem to have a better outlook and most defiantly better people skills than his stoneage father but you never know the power might destroy  him just like his dad who knows?