Training & Health and Safety

[Max]

Of late, I've got the impression that the brewery is no longer providing training - such as cellar management, Ping Pie Storage and preparation, Health and Safety obligations (lines and glass-washer cleaning, public/fire safety) etc..

If this proves to be true (and maybe you good people can tell me) then HS is breaking numerous laws - big style! He would actually be putting customers, managers and staff at risk of injury or death - which he would be held responsible for, following an HSE investigation.

Quite frankly - I'm not bothered about Mr H Smith getting into trouble - but I am concerned about the health of innocent others.

If I find out that training is inadequate, or non existent - then I will successfully get things turned around, by lobbying all local authorities, Government, media etc., letting them all know that if someone is seriously injured or dies as a result of ignoring my concerns, then their names will be handed to the following inquiry, for failing to follow up warnings - and believe you me, no one wants to expose themselves to that level of personal / corporate risk. Well with one exception of course!

[357maddog]

I did the brewery course not too long ago, it did not include one bit of cellar management or indeed a trip around the brewery (which I REALLY did want to see)...As far as I can remember there was also nothing on evacuation/fire procedures...BUT they did focus quite heavily on disciplinary procedures, employment law etc....strange that isn't it,...oh and the bookwork side.
The course lasted a week, and I gather in the "old days" the course lasted several weeks, culminating in some sort of placement working with a manager at one of their pubs before you were ever let loose on your own.

I came from a bars and catering senior management background so wasn't phased by the lack of adequate training but some on the course were certainly a little perplexed by its lack of real grounding information/hands on experience, the whole thing seemed as if they were doing probably the statuory basic. 

The ping pie "training" was something seperate and which I avoided like the plague, not wanting to do food in the pub we had...its still not doing food by the way.

I personally cannot say the training was sufficient...far from it, but they probably covered the bare minimum, and from the point of view of staff development/product awareness/presentation/customer care (LOL) it fell way way short of anything my former employer provided. 

[centurion]

 I came from a bars and catering senior management background so wasn't phased by the lack of adequate training but some on the course were certainly a little perplexed by its lack of real grounding information/hands on experience, the whole thing seemed as if they were doing probably the statuory basic.
 

 Perfect candidate for one of the many area manager vacancy, why not apply?

[357maddog]

Yeah, thanks for the support, I thought about doing just that, well maybe for a nano second and then suddenly realised that....

A) Ive already worked for them and know exactly how they operate

B) I am very much a "people person" and therefore would not treat any of my Managers any differently to how I would expect to be treat myself, and that would keep me in the job for maybe a week...tops.

C) They pay crap salaries way out of line with the level of responsibility....Jeez, 30-40 pubs is some job, particularly given the amount of work involved in trying to put things back even to "normal".

D) I cannot EVER work with an employer who ignores their workforce, who actively discourage customer care and blatantly seem to destroy any goodwill they have left, I certainly couldn't turn up at some pub and tell the Management couple that because they aren't pushing the crap food enough or can't meet a 5% surplus that they are now jobless/homeless.

I admit that I have absolutely no idea what sort of salaries the area Managers actually earn apart from rumour...(typical Smiths) but if it is anything less than 40-50k then it simply IS slave labour, but hey no change there.

 

[moggy]

had to reply to maddog try halfing the salary you think managers get, and you would be somewhere in line

[357maddog]

Well I had heard they were on around 25k, so sounds as though I wasn't too far away, however 40-50k is what I personally would expect for a job of such magnitude, especially working for what should be almost a "blue chip" company.

However, there is a very old adage which we have all heard thousands of times before that says "If you pay peanuts, you WILL get monkeys".....very apt!!

Not that I ever thought the likes of Mick Thompson, Ian Daffern etc etc were monkeys, far from it, I had a great respect or these guys who at least tried to treat the managers who worked for them with some respect and shielded them from the worst of the crap.

I dread to think where all this can end, but I do sincerely hope that the brewery can carry on, after all, I do love Sams beers and also do share a common cause with most of the people who post here, I just wish like most, it was all good news....maybe one day soon.   

[bluemoon]

the area manager job advertised in manchester evening news 2 weeks ago , (to replace dave beswick )
the salary offered was ?30k +car +pension+health care
NOT ENOUGH FOR ME TOO APPLY.

[357maddog]

I agree its at least 15k under salaried, and thats before you take into account having to try and work with them.

[petal]

can`t remember the last training/health and saftey course i was on,was a good few years ago now,and basic food hygene was when i started with the company over 10 yrs ago, hope this helps and dare i say,there`s probably a few more long serving managers out there will give you the same answer,thats if there`s any left!!!!!

[el nino 9]

As maddog says the 5 day induction course is woefully inadequate for anyone new to the trade. The emphasis is on how to safeguard the company's cash, rather than how to run a successful pub. Important and germane subjects, eg. health and safety legislation , bar and cellar hygiene etc. are skimmed through rapidly while hours are spent demonstrating how to fill in  reams of paperwork, or extolling the virtues of Sarah Braindeads products. Anyone who has attended recently must have, at some stage, questioned their decision to apply for the job in the first place. Especially when they see the where the company's priorities lie.

[stig]

What is more apt is the fact you get a mega section on work place and employment law when sams just have no concept of this!! oh dear me!!!