Author Topic: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond  (Read 18431 times)  Share 

Offline centurion

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #30 on: Sep 13 - 2014 »
The article refers to 300 pubs.  This is the first external reference to 300 pubs that I have seen.  Most quote 200 (from the Brewery). Only this site (as I know of) states 300.

It is not unknown for the Brewery to lease pubs.  Cornhill Vaults in Lincoln was leased.  The article states "the building?s landlord".  At first I took this as meaning the owner of the building, and thus it is leased by Samuel Smith's.  However, could this be just badly termed and actually mean the "pub landlord", ie the manager?

"the chain is known to allow each of its pubs to ?maintain a certain degree of autonomy" NOT.
DB.


Must admit I didn't think Landlord was a reference to the manager as it refers to them surrendering the premises licence which a manager would never usually have in their name, but now you mention it I suppose nothing strange about how the company is run should come as a surprise, and they are advertising for a new manager.

Perhaps Scottish law is different. . Prior to 2003 (in England) all Pub licenses were in the name of the then incumbent one had to go before the magistrates and show one was 'fit and proper' to have ones' name above the door.

It was not unknown for these licences to be handed back in moments of 'pique' when managers were sacked by his nibs. Just to p... him off $$*



Offline Drinker1

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #31 on: Sep 15 - 2014 »
It is a DPS Licence that the manager holds. 

A Designated Premises Supervisor (DPS) is an individual who holds a valid personal licence and is named on a
premises licence which authorises the sale by retail of alcohol.
All premises licences which authorise the sale of alcohol must, in accordance with the mandatory condition in
section 19 of the Licensing Act 2003, have a DPS who holds a valid personal licence. The premises licence must
specify the name, address and telephone number of the DPS. The premises licence summary must specify the
name of the DPS. The premises licence summary is required to be displayed on the premises.
Where a licensed premises has no DPS, or where the DPS does not hold a valid personal licence, the sale of
alcohol is not permitted.

It is this licence that soon to be ex managers inform the local licensing authority they will no longer hold and therefore no alcohol can be sold.  A relief will very seldom apply for  DPS as they are not usually there long enough and there is a cost and time scale involved.

Offline OnTheDrink

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #32 on: Sep 15 - 2014 »
It is a DPS Licence that the manager holds. 

A Designated Premises Supervisor (DPS) is an individual who holds a valid personal licence and is named on a
premises licence which authorises the sale by retail of alcohol.
All premises licences which authorise the sale of alcohol must, in accordance with the mandatory condition in
section 19 of the Licensing Act 2003, have a DPS who holds a valid personal licence. The premises licence must
specify the name, address and telephone number of the DPS. The premises licence summary must specify the
name of the DPS. The premises licence summary is required to be displayed on the premises.
Where a licensed premises has no DPS, or where the DPS does not hold a valid personal licence, the sale of
alcohol is not permitted.

It is this licence that soon to be ex managers inform the local licensing authority they will no longer hold and therefore no alcohol can be sold.  A relief will very seldom apply for  DPS as they are not usually there long enough and there is a cost and time scale involved.

I think we're all pretty familiar with the Licencing Act although in this case you've got the wrong one as the Licencing (Scotland) Act 2005 applies here.  The reason why I don't think it's a simple case of the DPS having thrown his toys out is that the act on both sides of the border makes provision for the sudden departure of the DPS and allows a 21 day grace period for the Premises Licence holder to make a variation order, preventing the sudden cessation of trading.  If it was as simple as a DPS variation then why would the company have applied for four consecutive month-long Temporary Event Notices to allow the pub to trade until at least December?

Offline Drinker1

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #33 on: Sep 15 - 2014 »
My answer was in reply to the premises licence question.  It is a DPS that the manager holds

Offline OnTheDrink

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #34 on: Sep 15 - 2014 »
My answer was in reply to the premises licence question.  It is a DPS that the manager holds

Yes, but the question was actually about whether or not the Premises Licence had been surrendered by the owner of the property as the wording of the newspaper story seemed to suggest that the freehold wasn't owned by Sam Smiths. If that was the case the pub would have had to stop trading immediately which is what happened. If it was the DPS taking themselves off the Premises Licence it shouldn't have caused the pub to stop trading due to the grace period.

Offline bitterboy

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #35 on: Sep 15 - 2014 »
Scottish law is different,as stated.was tempted to put more but will let it go.

Offline OnTheDrink

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #36 on: Sep 15 - 2014 »
Scottish law is different,as stated.was tempted to put more but will let it go.

Ha ha,  I saw your unmodified post!  Scottish licencing law is now almost identical but I know where you were coming from.

Offline bitterboy

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #37 on: Sep 16 - 2014 »
Thought you might have done, was going to put more but pointless! best wishes BB.

Offline DarkieBoy

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #38 on: Sep 19 - 2014 »
This was posted on the The Doo'Cot Roadhouse's thread and throws another spanner into the Samuel Smith's dray wheels:

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/second-pub-closes-amid-brewery-row-1-3545586

DB.

Offline OnTheDrink

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #39 on: Sep 19 - 2014 »
Interesting, and it even says that it's the premises licence involved, although I can't for the life of me understand why HS would have a manager's name on that.

Offline scoobie

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Offline OnTheDrink

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #41 on: Oct 28 - 2014 »
Astonishing! Not the contempt for the customers,  that's par for the course,  but the fact that he's actually responded.

Offline DarkieBoy

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #42 on: Oct 28 - 2014 »
I may cut out of my Oxford Dictionary the definition of "Diplomacy".

While I understand the pricing policy based on distance from the Brewery, and think it is reasonable to include distribution costs into the price of a pint, the way the Crammond is compared to London lacks basic knowledge of Scotland and the Scottish people.  Humphrey Smith also makes some other valid points, but unfortunately in a very heavy-handed and highly un-diplomatic manner not befitting of public relations.

Hopefully any back-lash will not deter young Mr. Smith from taking the business forward into the twentieth century!

DB.

Offline canaldrifter

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #43 on: Oct 28 - 2014 »

Hopefully any back-lash will not deter young Mr. Smith from taking the business forward into the twentieth century!

DB.

He ought to bite the bullet and have his Dad sectioned too, for his own protection.

Tone

Offline OnTheDrink

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Re: The Cramond Inn - Location: Cramond
« Reply #44 on: Oct 28 - 2014 »
Perhaps someone should buy him a copy...