Author Topic: Old Red Lion Leeds  (Read 27113 times)  Share 

Offline paulxmw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Old Red Lion Leeds
« on: Mar 12 - 2011 »
Well it?s my first post on this forum, but I have to let people on here and the people of Leeds West Yorkshire know about what?s going on at the recently refurbished Old Red Lion.
Firstly may I say how nice it looks nice inside there is fresh paintwork and a new deep pile carpet, very nice. The men?s toilets have also had a face lift and are certainly more welcoming then they used to be. But that?s where the complements end I?m afraid.
Since the reopening, the social club, open the box, quiz night and bingo have all gone. Along with many of the regulars I might add. Closing time is now 10:00 pm,, come on 10 pm for gods sake. And the pubs longest serving customer of 36 years has been banned supposedly for something he posted on this forum, certainly not for anything he did in the pub.
I have witnessed and heard homophobic behavior and comments by the new customers brought in by the managers wife/lady friend from the ASDA building down the road. Amongst the many homophobic comments  the worst were said directly to the manager One customer said to the manager ?I thought you were getting rid of all these puffs? On another occasion a customer said ?have you got rid of all the puffs yet?. From what I saw the manager made absolutely no effort to curtail anyone from expressing homophobic views.
On Wednesday 09 March I saw a guy outside the pub that looked like he was waiting for his taxi. When the manager ran out of the pub and verbally abused him. The abuse was so vicious. I felt sure the manager was going to use violence. I don?t know if something had happened in the pub or not but surly the manager?s jurisdiction ends at the door. If the guy had done something that couldn?t be dealt with by removing him from the premises then the manager should have called the police NOT got physical with him.
Finally the Old Red Lion is listed on the Gay Leeds map and website. My advice to anyone visiting GAY Leeds is to avoid the Red Lion at all costs, if you are GAY then tell your friends not to bother with the Red lion as there is a definite negative atmosphere towards GAY people in there now.
Sam Smiths should heed the lessons they learnt 20 years ago after the last refurb  They thought they?d get the ASDA crowd, and they did for a while. Then the place died a death, it was the GAY crowd who made the lion what it was and put money in the till. The Lion won?t last long with only 4 to 6 customers on week nights. Then what will the mighty SAM SMITHS do.
« Last Edit: Mar 13 - 2011 by paulxmw »

Offline ian

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,106
  • Member Karma = +4/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #1 on: Mar 12 - 2011 »
I will stand by my last post about the Red Lion. I   Know the new manager might have upset some of the old timers. But they  are there to manage the pub.

Will post more tomorrow when I have more time, but what I will say now and anybody with a once of sense will know that the opening hours are set by the brewery.

ian.

Edited by me, spelling.
« Last Edit: Mar 12 - 2011 by ian »

antthe2nd

  • Non-Member
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #2 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
 :o paul your being a big girls blouse about the whole situation, why should/would a new management carry on an ex managers role???? they have diff ideas ,so give em a chance or dont drink there

antthe2nd

  • Non-Member
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #3 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
where,s denbydale????

Offline paulxmw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #4 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
Your right the new manager can do as he likes even at the cost of loosing all the custom and good will that has been built up over the past 15-20 years??, alienating people who have been this pubs bread & butter?? I may decide to ?drink ells where? much like 90% of the people that were regulars, certainly I have only been calling in for the odd pint, but I don?t think that will last nuch longer. there were 15-20 customers in last night compaired to a normal Saturday when the place would have been packed.

Offline passedit

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: Ex Sams Manager
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #5 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
Ant Denby Dale Road runs from Wakefield through to Sisset,it,s in that area,they are famous for their pie,s

Offline bigjim

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 487
  • Member Karma = +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #6 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
Paul,

Firstly welcome to the forum - it's good to hear customers viewpoints - it confirms this site as THE place to go for the latest information about everything to do with Sam Smith. The more different views we get, the more we can all be better informed.

Your post raises lots of issues and I'd like to add some thoughts to the debate. Unfortunately I didn't frequent this pub before the recent changes and that might possibly be precisely because it was widely accepted as a gay pub. For the same reason I've never been in the New Penny. I'm not homophobic, but like everyone I guess, I only want to drink in a pub where I feel comfortable and won't be the subject of unwanted attention or animosity even. I've never darkened the doors of the Duncan or General Elliot where I think anyone a bit smartly dressed would be regarded as either CID or just some kind of middle class unpleasant person.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest that Mr Humphrey Smith, who of course runs the whole empire almost single-handed, is probably not in tune with many of todays liberal views on things like gay rights or indeed any kind of equal opportunity policies - but he does know the law pretty well and the dangers of discrimination. He seems to have decided that he wanted a more mixed clientelle at the Old Red Lion and chose a management couple who shared those views. Maybe they are not going about altering the social mix of the pub in a very sophisticated way, but cancelling all the activities like quiz nights etc is very definitely part of a plan to change the customer base of the pub.

Anyone who knows anything about Humphrey Smith at all will know that he cares not one jot if the pub is full every night or empty every night. He can easily keep any of his pubs running virtually without customers because he's so wealthy. This is no ordinary pub company we are talking about here, hence the closure time of 10.00pm. He positively relishes not doing what customers want and complaining will get you precisely nowhere. Of course it won't stop him blaming the management couple and possibly sacking them before they complete 12 months employment. He has a track record of doing this as any search of past posts on this forum will confirm.

You suggest telling the gay community to avoid using the pub. I understand why you feel like this, but of course it plays completely into the hands of the Brewery Management. I think it's fair for people to know what's going on and that the former very friendly gay focus of the pub has changed, but don't let him win by boycotting the pub. Remember, there are a hell of a lot of negatives to Sam Smiths pubs but price and quality are not two of them. Bitter is ?3.15 in the Adelphi and ?1.56 at the Old Red Lion.

A long post, but I hope it makes sense. Despite everything, lets ensure that this pub can be a friendly, accepting and pleasant place to drink good cheap beer in pleasant surroundings whatever our sexual orientation might be.

Cheers,

Jim   

PS - Admin - very impressed with the software that edited one of my ill-considered terms! lol   

Offline Coriolanus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 78
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #7 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
Well done bigjim, common sense at last. It has to be remembered that this site should not be about individual managers since good or bad will abound in any workplace and peoples opinions of what is good or bad will also vary. This site, or so I understood it, was about the unrealistic actions/expectations of its increasingly unstable chairman Humphrey Smith and as such was a place for people (staff and customers alike) to voice their opinions and spread information about the subject. Humphrey seems to revel in a shroud of secrecy and for years it has served him in deflecting the press or other unwanted attention. Here was an opportunity to spread information and highlight his worst atrocities in the hope that one day somebody with more power and authority will take the great dictator to task. This site was about managers being forced to work unrealistic hours for a pittance of a wage, it was about community pubs being ruined by his ridiculous policies on music/TV's/food. It was about an incredibly wealthy and very powerful mans decline into meglomaniac insanity and the lack of anyone being able to stand up to him. (Including Selby council)
I think this issue has been increasingly fudged over the last 12 months, and I would love this site to become a Sam Smiths appreciation site, publicising the many virtues of his company (Great beer, traditional pubs, etc) after either he has been removed from power or a modicum of common sense and decency has been returned to his treatment of customers and especially employees.
Others are better qualified to talk of his treatment of his staff, but all customers have been affected in some way by his ludicrous policies. I have already alluded to his practise on Food/TV and music which have been catastrophic to some pubs (I know, not all but most have been affected detrimentally in some way) and from a customers point of view I can think of no better way to highlight his lunacy than the directive for all pubs to close at 12pm on New Years Eve (of course after allowing for the singing of Auld Lang Syne before slinging the would be revelllers out in the street) These are not the actions of a sane man.
Back to the Red Lion, a new management always upsets the apple cart of some regulars particularily if the outgoing manager had been a success but the point here surely has to be whether it is the individual managers decision to be homophobic (if this is the case) or if the instruction to be so has come from the chairman of the company, in which case it really would be a serious state of affairs.
Please dont forget that or so I always understood it, that this site was about Humphrey and company policy and not about individual pubs or managers.

Offline ian

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,106
  • Member Karma = +4/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #8 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
I was in the Red Lion on Friday for about a hour. Standing at the bar I overheard a few things. 

The Red Lion was closed for 6 weeks undergoing a refurbishment and what a good job was made of it.  The management  couple are new to the trade and want to stamp their identity on the pub. Yes they have stopped  the quiz nights ect for the time being but I think the plan is to introduce things in the coming weeks.

As for banning gays, sorry but I don't believe it. I think I was talking to one stood at the bar. There was no anti-gay atmosphere in the pub while I was there, and when the chap left he said he was coming back in with some mates that night.

Yes a few people have been ask to leave for different reasons, one being going behind the bar and helping themselfs.

I have been in the Red Lion now 6 times in the last 2 years, including evenings and I yet to see any signs of it being a Gay pub.

ian.

Offline paulxmw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #9 on: Mar 13 - 2011 »
I have been drinking in the Red lion for the best part of 25 years and have NEVER herd of any newcomer to the pub suffering from unwanted attention or animosity but then the place has never needed a management couple who bring in there friend as the ?bouncer? and a friend of mine defiantly felt unwanted attention and animosity from HIM. Though he was not displaying any Leeds City Council door mans license. I?ll be letting the councils door supervisors licensing department know about this on Monday.

There was a mixed clientele at the Old Red Lion but the management couple have alienated them and aloud anyone who wishes, to express homophobic views. Resulting in loss of custom so Humphrey Smith better get used to the pub been empty every night.

I do suggest telling the gay community to avoid using the pub by boycotting it. The bitter may cost ?3.15 in the Adelphi and ?1.56 at the Old Red Lion but I would sooner pay more to drink in a pub I felt welcome in. did you know bitter is ?2.00 in queens court until 9.00pm. In Regent bitter costs ?2.40 all night. You also get music and entertainment thrown in too, unlike the lion that?s as quiet as the grave.

antthe2nd

  • Non-Member
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #10 on: Mar 14 - 2011 »
A QUOTE FROM BIGJIM:  I've never darkened the doors of the Duncan or General Elliot where I think anyone a bit smartly dressed would be regarded as either CID or just some kind of middle class unpleasant person. ............................

now on my visits to these 2 pubs ive had conversations with some very nice people included in these people are an accountant,a solicitor, buisness men etc smartly dressed men with wealth,stood next to retired ex buisness men etc of course there,s other elements of society in the pubs, but i think the ignorance lays with the writer of that quote, assuming everyone in these pubs is a scruffy crime bandit, pubs do tend to have rich man,poor man,begger man,thief, open your eyes a little and look around you :(

I

Offline bigjim

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 487
  • Member Karma = +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #11 on: Mar 14 - 2011 »
antthe2nd - I stand corrected! But I'm afraid I still won't be darkening the door of the Duncan or General Elliot until they get a facelift. We all choose to drink in certain pubs for a variety of reasons and lets just say I find these two very unappealing at the present time. Also, you will be aware of some significant negative posts about both pubs on this site. At no time did I suggest what type of people drink in these pubs - "scruffy crime bandit" - are your words not mine! I just suggested I felt that I might not be welcome looking like CID as I do! lol 

antthe2nd

  • Non-Member
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #12 on: Mar 14 - 2011 »
well its sounds as its written, the cid dont always dress smart they dress down to mingle most of time, it just sounded like everyone was not dressed to your standard and were afraid of the police, some are!!!!!!!!! but not most folk, as for decor in the duncan i know its really in need of a facelift , cant believe its been left to age when others around it are getting refurbs, must be because of its high takings,always busy when i go anyway

Offline pintplease

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 93
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • SamSmiths Status: A CUSTOMER
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #13 on: Mar 30 - 2011 »
I haven't  been in the Red Lion since the new manager took over but I am
disappointed to read  the allegations about his attitude to his gay customers.
If these allegations are true then not only is it unlawful but its also very insulting
towards a good crowd of regulars who have kept that pub going over the years.
Its always been a welcoming pub with a mixed crowd although predominately
gay and any new prospective manager must have been made aware of this before
taking up the job. It will be a shame if the regulars are driven out.   

Offline alepaul

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 59
  • Member Karma = +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Old Red Lion Leeds
« Reply #14 on: Mar 31 - 2011 »
The manager always has the perogative to serve who he wants. He has no compulsion to sell beer to everyone.
Obviously homophobia is wrong but it's very hard to judge without knowing the exact details. I'm sure the manager is not barring people purely on the basis of sexuality (which would be highly illegal) but more on the grounds of the sort of clientel he wants to encourage. I'm sure there are people of both orientation who feel both aggrieved and pleased by the new manager