Author Topic: well the humph strikes again  (Read 9349 times)  Share 

Offline baby28

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well the humph strikes again
« on: Aug 9 - 2013 »
well we are another couple who have been killing ourselves for 2 years running a sam smiths pub,then sacked by the nutter now jobless,homeless,glad i have a found a good solicitors,because i am takeing this all the wayyyyyyy,would love to hear from any one in the same boat.

Offline minsterman

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #1 on: Aug 9 - 2013 »
Welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear that you are yet another victim (one of many).

Interesting to hear that you made it to 2 years. Now would that be just under two years by any chance? As of course your employment status (and rights) change after two years - which was previously one year - and of course many managers were dumped just before the full 1 year.

If it is the case that your employment was terminated just before the 2 year period - then I would imagine that there will be many worried Sam's managers out there, who are approaching the same milestone.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what reason/excuse was given for your dismissal?

With regards to hearing from other victims - there are many - but it would seem that most want to put the bad experience behind themselves after a while, so we don't tend to hear from those individuals for too long after their termination, on these forums. Although there may be a few here?

I wish you all the very best for your future.
These are sad times :(

Offline east coast beer drinker

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #2 on: Aug 9 - 2013 »
Why use the word "victims" Do you presume they are all dismissed for no reason and all are innocent of any wrong doing whatsoever - all of them? 
I have said it before and I will say it again, there will be some reason for termination. 
 

Offline minsterman

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #3 on: Aug 9 - 2013 »
I use the term 'victim', when in my personal opinion, through observation and experience, I consider an individual, or individuals, victims of circumstances which most would consider as constructive dismissal, or unfair dismissal - during the termination of employment.

I personally know of three instances, that meet with this criteria, and have heard from friend who I trust, of similar instances.

Although the 'official' reason given may have a little more credibility - I was personally informed that a couple were dismissed for being 'too fat' (managers), and another, for being 'black' (cook). This is in addition to the three instances mentioned above.

I think most people who know HS well, or have spent some time in his company, are aware of his alleged viewpoint on minority groups - which believe it or not, includes women!!! In fact it is alleged, that he refers to the majority of his patrons, as 'tap room class'

What really disappoints me - is the constant denial by some (usually loyal supporters of the brewery's produce) that such situations occur, on a very regular basis. Those same individuals also seem to be totally unaware of the fact that, with great wealth, really does give some, great power - which in the wrong hands, can prove very dangerous, and very unfair.

Anybody remember the incident (also reported on here) were a young couple were accused of something (unfounded, and to this day, totally unproven, as far as I'm aware), and evicted on to the streets, homeless, by the attending HS and locksmiths. The manageress even had a crying baby in her arms, and HS's best advice was allegedly something about grabbing a sheet of the beds to wrap the child in!!! That incident was escalated to their local MP that very same day. I think the place was the Crows Nest, Cleethorpes.

So many times, we never hear of any follow-ups - so who can imagine what really goes on? But it has been alleged on this site, that there have been occasions of legal challenges, met with a pay-offs from the brewery, who stipulate complete silence, as part of the agreement!!!

I'm sure as with all organizations, there are instances whereby a dismissal is necessary, and completely within the remit of the law / employment law. And that Sam's brewery in such situations are completely justified. Although I fear that the majority are not about someone committing gross misconduct - but simply as a result of a personal dislike of HS (for whatever reason), or due to the employee(s) being about to have more rights after two years of employment with the brewery (formerly 1 year, before the employment law was amended).

As the MD of a medium sized organization, I'm fully aware of instances when we have had to dismiss members of our own staff. Although I'm pleased to state, this is quite a rare occurrence - which could be down to careful recruitment/selection, and then supportive training, ongoing support, and our constant monitoring to ensure a happy working environment/relationship.

If my organization had what would appear to be the large management turnover, that Sam's had - then we would have to seriously identify where the problem was, for the sake of our businesses success against our competitors.
These are sad times :(

Offline east coast beer drinker

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #4 on: Aug 9 - 2013 »
I use the term 'victim', when in my personal opinion, through observation and experience, I consider an individual, or individuals, victims of circumstances which most would consider as constructive dismissal, or unfair dismissal - during the termination of employment.

I personally know of three instances, that meet with this criteria, and have heard from friend who I trust, of similar instances.

Although the 'official' reason given may have a little more credibility - I was personally informed that a couple were dismissed for being 'too fat' (managers), and another, for being 'black' (cook). This is in addition to the three instances mentioned above.

I think most people who know HS well, or have spent some time in his company, are aware of his alleged viewpoint on minority groups - which believe it or not, includes women!!! In fact it is alleged, that he refers to the majority of his patrons, as 'tap room class'

What really disappoints me - is the constant denial by some (usually loyal supporters of the brewery's produce) that such situations occur, on a very regular basis. Those same individuals also seem to be totally unaware of the fact that, with great wealth, really does give some, great power - which in the wrong hands, can prove very dangerous, and very unfair.

Anybody remember the incident (also reported on here) were a young couple were accused of something (unfounded, and to this day, totally unproven, as far as I'm aware), and evicted on to the streets, homeless, by the attending HS and locksmiths. The manageress even had a crying baby in her arms, and HS's best advice was allegedly something about grabbing a sheet of the beds to wrap the child in!!! That incident was escalated to their local MP that very same day. I think the place was the Crows Nest, Cleethorpes.

So many times, we never hear of any follow-ups - so who can imagine what really goes on? But it has been alleged on this site, that there have been occasions of legal challenges, met with a pay-offs from the brewery, who stipulate complete silence, as part of the agreement!!!

I'm sure as with all organizations, there are instances whereby a dismissal is necessary, and completely within the remit of the law / employment law. And that Sam's brewery in such situations are completely justified. Although I fear that the majority are not about someone committing gross misconduct - but simply as a result of a personal dislike of HS (for whatever reason), or due to the employee(s) being about to have more rights after two years of employment with the brewery (formerly 1 year, before the employment law was amended).

As the MD of a medium sized organization, I'm fully aware of instances when we have had to dismiss members of our own staff. Although I'm pleased to state, this is quite a rare occurrence - which could be down to careful recruitment/selection, and then supportive training, ongoing support, and our constant monitoring to ensure a happy working environment/relationship.

If my organization had what would appear to be the large management turnover, that Sam's had - then we would have to seriously identify where the problem was, for the sake of our businesses success against our competitors.

A good reply and now appreciate your point of view more.   :DD

Offline ian

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #5 on: Aug 9 - 2013 »
Even so-called good companies sometimes treat their employees like s**t.  I worked very happily for a company that is in the Sunday Times best 100 companies in the UK to work for.  After 13 years I was given 12 weeks notice.  After a week the boss told me that I was not sacked.  The following week one of the office staff told me that I was sacked.  The next day the boss told me that I wasn't and work as normal.   That afternoon I was told again that I was sacked.  At that point I had a meeting with the boss and the office worker.   The boss told me that I was not sacked and carry on as normal, as I walked out the bosses office with the office worker, he told me that it didn't matter what was said, I was going.  2 days later I left on my own accord.

That was from a company that was one of the first to get investors in people and prides itself on a good company to work for.

Bottom line is, if a company what's rid, there is very little a "on the floor" worker can do about it.   Must admit the firm did do me a big favour.   The next day I started at a company for 8 years on double the money I was on, but that all ended 4 years ago.   :(

Offline Coriolanus

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #6 on: Aug 10 - 2013 »
Well said minsterman, I agree with all you have said, Humphrey is totally unlike any individual boss, his logic and sense of fairness has nothing to do with normal principles, either in the business or personal sense. You cant second guess him because his business strategies tend to be developed as he goes along with little or no consultation with people who may advise better. To be fair he's disposed of most people who could have advised him properly and even the ones who gave him horrendous advice have long gone now. He refuses to believe his policies can be wrong and I suspect he carries on with them once he has committed to them, even when he himself knows they are not working, taking some perverse pleasure at doing it his way regardless of logic.
Don't try and judge him on normal rules of business, Ie he will never do that because he will lose too much trade by doing so. The food fiasco, the TVs and music (regardless of whether you like them or not, some pubs were hit very badly by these decisions), the cutting of staff hours and the increasing demand for the much debated 5%, the  treatment of managers in front of regular patrons, the changing of his mind on a whim......I could go on and on, . I'm trying to stop myself going into too much detail.
I genuinely believe that if he had left the pubs alone pre the TV and music end or at least hadn't tampered with the food , most Sam's pubs would have been phenomenally busy during the current financial climate. Great product, great price had to be a winner, but not without the other things that need to be offered by a modern pub in most cases. I'm a traditionalist too and support him in a lot of those kinds of principles, but have you noticed how many pubs are losing Cask OBB now, he's slowly sacrificing that for the sake of his other policies which are resulting in less customers and therefore less OBB sales and OBB needs selling to keep it well. He needs to realise that a lot of his pubs need help, not bullying the managers , old or new, or trying to force customers to like it or lump it at every turn.
HS needs help. Its a small independent brewery. Its not so small that one man can run it virtually single handed without driving himself into the ground or making continual mistakes. One man , even one with HS remarkable energy for a man of his age, cannot continue making good rational decisions when the empire is so obviously in need of a new direction...even if the direction is to go back a few years to before when the madness truly began
I'll end as I started, normal logic does not apply to HS. He will continue to lose money rather than change a policy even if it has been continually proven to be wrong. All of which is fine providing you aren't playing god with employees lives and affecting local communities by destroying Sam's pubs as the local focal point, which is what has happened in a huge amount of local Sam's pubs. (The exceptions to this rule will be hugely in the minority, particularly in the case of more isolated, non town centre pubs)
Still love Sam's beers and the pubs...really miss the old days......

Offline bacuzzi48

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #7 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
The more I read about Humph the mans sanity must be in question.My support is for his style of pubs not for his treatment of staff.However must return to the question of Tvs in pubs nobody on this site or anywhere has explained the point of them,who goes to a pub to watch television,the exception being Murdoch vision sport,plenty of bars cater for those people so in that case Humph is right.

Offline DarkieBoy

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #8 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
I find the posters in the pubs with the "Fair Trade" logos on them quite ironic.  The people working for the companies that produce the ingredients may well be treated fairly, but it does not seem to me, in my opinion, that "Fair Trade" spreads to the staff of Samuel Smith's Brewery.

Yes, lots of lots of really great things about Samuel Smith's Brewery, and I support many policies whole-heartedly.  Quality of products (when Old Brewery Bitter is good), quality of pubs and quality of refurbishments, no televisions (although some Samuel Smith's pubs in certain areas would probably benefit from TVs), no music (although this should not be so restricted as live music in a room in a pub can be great), etc.

DB.

In addition, this Topic and its threads are an example of good quality and sensible debate on this forum and is how other debates should take place.  Particular credit to east coast beer drinker for his recognition of minsterman's response.  I hope that we hear back from baby28 about their experience.  It would be good to confirm how close you were to the two years of service.

Offline Malchetone

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #9 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
However must return to the question of Tvs in pubs nobody on this site or anywhere has explained the point of them,who goes to a pub to watch television.

In the old days a number of town pubs had small groups of blokes who would go in at dinner time, pick their runners, reach behind the settle for the stash of betting slips, nip over to the bookies and place their bets, and then nip back to the pub to watch the racing. At the same time they were also chatting convivially and drinking moderately; all gone elsewhere now of course.

Offline canaldrifter

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #10 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
I spent an afternoon/evening recently in The John Bull near Thorne, a historic pub that used to be next to the Don river before they moved it. It has some fascinating photos on the walls of when the pub was frequented by the crews of the passing keels.

Any road up, their TV was constantly tuned to the horse-racing. About a dozen local regulars were having an early afternoon punt or six, on their mobiles to the bookies.

It made for an exciting afternoon during which a fair amount of lager was shifted and a fair amount of housekeeping money lost.

I don't bet and I don't drink lager and there was no cask ale. But the keg wasn't too bad.

My point is, without the telly the place would have been empty and all those regulars would have been in the bookies.

TVs do bring in trade.

Tone

Offline DarkieBoy

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #11 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
I spent an afternoon/evening recently in The John Bull near Thorne, a historic pub that used to be next to the Don river before they moved it. It has some fascinating photos on the walls of when the pub was frequented by the crews of the passing keels.

Tone

Which was moved, the river or the pub?  :P

DB.

Offline Malchetone

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #12 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
I spent an afternoon/evening recently in The John Bull near Thorne, a historic pub that used to be next to the Don river before they moved it. It has some fascinating photos on the walls of when the pub was frequented by the crews of the passing keels.

Tone

Which was moved, the river or the pub?  :P

DB.

The River; it's quite a story.

Offline kettlesimon

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #13 on: Aug 13 - 2013 »
In resonse to this thread. Have they either "popped their clogs", or just found a job ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline canaldrifter

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Re: well the humph strikes again
« Reply #14 on: Aug 14 - 2013 »

Quote
Which was moved, the river or the pub?  :P

DB.


Quote
The River; it's quite a story.


Go on then....

Tone